Historical LAD ROY positional player voting results
With Cody Bellinger expected to win the NL 2017 Rookie of the Year award, let’s take a look at all the LAD position players who have gotten at least one vote for the award.
In 1960 Frank Howard won over his teammate Tommy Davis and future HOF Ron Santo. Frank Howard had an illustrious career and proved the voters correct.
In 1965 Jim Lefebvre won over Joe Morgan who was truly robbed. Frenchy would go on to have an excellent sophomore season leading the 1966 Dodgers in most offensive categories but eventually his career petered out in 1972. But that would just be the beginning of a baseball journey that took him around the world.
Ted Sizemore won in 1969 and the competition was meager. Sizemore had lowest OPS+ of any LAD to win the ROY. Al Oliver would go on to have the best career among those who got votes. Had to be a big letdown for baseball after the two previous winners were future HOF Johnny Bench and Tom Seaver.
Ron Cey and Davey Lopes both tied for 6th in 1973. The winner was Gary Matthews with Steve Rogers placing 2nd. Other good players to get a vote were Richie Zisk, Bob Boone, and Dan Driessen. Ron Cey would end up with the highest cumulative bWAR from that group with Davey Lopes giving him a good run for his money. Steve Rogers was second in cumulative bWAR and long time Dodger fans will remember the Dodgers had to go through prime Steve Rodgers in 1981 to get to the World Series. Rick Monday’s home run in the deciding game is one of the great LAD moments in history.
Steve Sax would win in 1982, and much like Sizemore did it by hitting lots and lots of singles. Sax would also steal 49 bases. Future HOF Ryan Sandberg got some votes, but in 1982 Steve Sax had the better season. Sax won the 4th Dodger ROY in a row but was the only position player in that run of four. Rick Sutcliffe, Steve Howe, and Fernando won it in 79/80/81. We will get to the pitchers in a different article. Interesting note, at this point the last three position Dodgers to win the ROY were all 2nd baseman.
Greg Brock would get 3 points for 7th place in 1983. About what he deserved. Mr. Strawberry won easily.
Mariano Duncan surprised everyone to win the starting SS job in 1985 and parlayed his 38 steals into 3rd place. Vince Coleman would steal 110 bases and run away with the award.
Eric Karros started a string of five straight Dodger ROY winners in 1992. Eric won quite easily as he was the only full-time rookie to put up any kind of numbers in 1992.
HOF Mike Piazza followed Karros by winning in 1993. Piazza would be the first LAD ROY winner to become a HOF but he had a teammate named Pedro Martinez who got 9th place. For cumulative bWAR I wonder if any team had two rookies on it like Piazza and Pedro? Piazza received every single first place vote, and had the highest OPS+ of the any Dodger ROY winner, and will still hold that distinction even after Seager wins this year. However one Dodger rookie did have a higher OPS+ than Piazza, but he did not win the ROY award in 2013.
Raul Mondesi than followed Karros and Piazza by winning the 1994 award. In three years the Dodgers had added three major talents, but it didn’t help them win any postseason games. Just like Piazza, Mondesi won every single 1st place vote. Headed into the 1995 season you would have been hard-pressed to decide who was going to have the better career, Mondesi or Piazza. Ryan Klesko, Cliff Floyd and Javy Lopez were three players who received votes that would go on to have distinguished careers.
Todd Hollandsworth won in 1996 completing the string of five straight Dodger ROY award winners. Hideo Nomo won as a LAD pitcher in 1995. That left the Dodgers with four position ROY award winners in five years and one pitcher. Yet again none of that translated into postseason victories. Nary a one. Todd barely beat out Edgar Renteria for 1st place with 15 votes to 10. I’d have gone with the SS myself. Todd was the last LAD position player to win the NL ROY award. Until 2016 that is.
It wasn’t until 2006 that any LAD position player got any ROY votes. Andre polled 5th in 2006 riding his outstanding start. Russell Martin showed up 9th and even smiling Sammy Saito got a vote. The winner was Hanley Ramirez but the list had plenty of other good players. Ryan Zimmerman was 2nd, Dan Uggla, Johnson, Matt Cain, and Prince Fielder all got some votes.
James Loney would get one vote in 2007 finishing 6th and last in the voting. Ryan Braun started his brilliant career in 2007 and easily won the award. However, James Loney unlike Karros, Piazza, Mondesi, Nomo, and Hollandsworth, would give the Dodgers a win in the postseason. Yeah, he did that.
Which takes us to 2013 and Yasiel Puig. Puig has the highest OPS+ of any LAD rookie and yet did not win a ROY award. With good reason. Puig lost to his countryman Jose Fernandez who tragically died earlier this month.
Corey Seager won the 2016 ROY award by a landslide getting every single 1st place vote. Something we expect Cody Bellinger to replicate.
List of LAD Rookies and how they did in ROY voting. Even though Baseball Reference lists Billy Grabarkewitz and his 1970 season as a rookie he was not a rookie, cause if he was he’d have beaten Carl Morton. Billy may not have been a rookie but 1970 was first full season and he was everything that Cory Seager was in 2016.
| Player | ROY Voting | OPS+ | PA | Year | Age |
| Frank Howard | 1st | 107 | 487 | 1960 | 23 |
| Tommy Davis | 5th | 92 | 374 | 1960 | 21 |
| Jim Lefebvre | 1st | 106 | 631 | 1965 | 23 |
| Ted Sizemore | 1st | 94 | 650 | 1969 | 24 |
| Ron Cey | 6th | 104 | 595 | 1973 | 25 |
| Davey Lopes | 6th | 100 | 615 | 1973 | 28 |
| Steve Sax | 1st | 97 | 699 | 1982 | 22 |
| Greg Brock | 7th | 106 | 543 | 1983 | 26 |
| Mariano Duncan | 3rd | 80 | 620 | 1985 | 22 |
| Eric Karros | 1st | 106 | 589 | 1992 | 24 |
| Mike Piazza | 1st | 153 | 602 | 1993 | 24 |
| Raul Mondesi | 1st | 123 | 454 | 1994 | 23 |
| Todd Hollandsworth | 1st | 113 | 526 | 1996 | 23 |
| Andre Ethier | 5th | 113 | 441 | 2006 | 24 |
| Russell Martin | 9th | 101 | 468 | 2006 | 23 |
| James Loney | 6th | 134 | 375 | 2007 | 23 |
| Yasiel Puig | 2nd | 159 | 432 | 2013 | 22 |
| Corey Seager | 1st | 137 | 687 | 2016 | 22 |
Only Bellinger and Kershaw crack top MLB award player finalists
Cody Bellinger is a shoe-in for the 2017 NL ROY but that will probably be the only hardware the team with the best record in baseball will acquire.
Clayton Kershaw is in the finals with Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg for the NL CYA.
At one time this summer it seemed as if the Dodgers had a plethora of players who could vie for the NL MVP award in Chris Taylor, Corey Seager, Justin Turner, Cody Bellinger, and Clayton Kershaw but none of their performances could keep pace with what Stanton/Votto/Goldy did for the whole season.
Bellinger needed to have the season he had because he actually had some nice competition this year. Josh Bell or Paul DeJong would have made claims on the ROY award in a normal season. Both of them quietly had solid rookie campaigns.
I’m not sure if Clayton wins his fourth award even he had stayed healthy. The competition is fierce from the Nationals duo. Kershaw has now been in the top five of CYA voting every year since 2011 when he won his first CYA. He has never finished lower than five and won’t again this year as he is guaranteed at least a 3rd spot. For a time his teammate Alex Wood looked like he might be able to garner some CYA votes but injuries and performance in the second half cut his chances to zero. I expect we will find that Kenley Jansen got some votes for his outstanding season but not top three.
Now that Clayton has over 2,000 strikeouts in his career we can start checking him out against other pitchers with that benchmark. This is a leaderboard of pitchers who have tallied at least 2,000 strikeouts with an ERA+ >= 130. As you would expect the leaderboard is basically the greatest pitchers in baseball history. And one pitcher sits on top.
Player ERA+ SO From To Age IP FIP K% BB% Clayton Kershaw 161 2120 2008 2017 20-29 1935.0 2.60 27.9% 6.7% Pedro Martinez 154 3154 1992 2009 20-37 2827.1 2.91 27.7% 6.7% Lefty Grove 148 2266 1925 1941 25-41 3940.2 3.36 13.6% 7.1% Walter Johnson 147 3509 1907 1927 19-39 5914.1 2.42 15.0% 5.8% Roger Clemens 143 4672 1984 2007 21-44 4916.2 3.09 23.1% 7.8% Christy Mathewson 137 2492 1901 1916 20-35 4755.0 2.25 13.3% 4.4% Randy Johnson 135 4875 1988 2009 24-45 4135.1 3.19 28.6% 8.8% Pete Alexander 135 2198 1911 1930 24-43 5190.0 2.88 10.5% 4.6% Rube Waddell 133 2137 1901 1910 24-33 2659.2 1.93 20.4% 6.9% Greg Maddux 132 3371 1986 2008 20-42 5008.1 3.26 16.5% 4.9% Sandy Koufax 131 2396 1955 1966 19-30 2324.1 2.69 25.2% 8.6% Roy Halladay 131 2117 1998 2013 21-36 2749.1 3.39 18.8% 5.2%
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/7/2017.
Okay, that is misleading because all of these pitchers continued pitching beyond age 29, and as they did so (expect Randy Johnson) you would expect their performance to degrade. So how does he compare at age 29 with other pitchers at age 29? Only three make the list using the same criteria. Strikeouts over 2,000, and an ERA+ >= 130.
Player ERA+ SO From To Age IP ERA FIP K% BB%
Walter Johnson 166 2305 1907 1917 19-29 3474.1 1.70 1.92 17.3% 5.2%
Clayton Kershaw 161 2120 2008 2017 20-29 1935.0 2.36 2.60 27.9% 6.7%
Bob Feller 134 2000 1936 1948 17-29 2471.0 2.99 3.23 19.2% 12.0%
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/7/2017.
Andre Ethier was more than 3.5
We had a joke at Dodger Thoughts when Andre Ethier was in the minor leagues that he was a 3.5. Meaning he probably wasn’t going to be good enough to be a major league starter but would be very valuable off the bench. Boy were we wrong.
Many players get that label. You could say that Andrew Toles and Alex Verdugo might be in that category until they prove they are major league starters.
Like many fans I’m going to miss Andre. Not just because he was here so long and you were comfortable with him but because he was a fun baseball player. He had passion, he could hit, he could hit for power, he could hit in the clutch (yeah, I said that), he could field, and he could throw. He wasn’t a five tool player but his tool was average to above average. The only thing that Andre could not do, was hit left-handed pitching. Yet many manager gave it a go. Even with a career OPS of .633 against left-handed pitching, his managers allowed him to garner 1200 plate appearances against them. Go figure
My history with Andre goes all the way back to his beginnings. While a member of the Oakland A’s he was on the same Arizona Fall League team in 2005 as Matt Kemp, James Loney, and Andy LaRoche. The 2005 Phoenix Desert Dogs
Name Age PA 2B 3B HR RBI OPS Andre Ethier* 23 105 7 3 2 21 1.093 Matt Kemp 20 99 6 3 3 16 1.021 James Loney* 21 65 2 0 5 17 .964 Andy LaRoche 21 100 9 0 0 15 .844 Tony Abreu# 20 88 6 1 1 7 .761
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/5/2017.
I went out that fall to scout the best the Dodgers had to offer and spent almost a week in Arizona. Andre Ethier was very impressive but at the time he wasn’t a Dodger. He played both CF and RF switching up with Matt Kemp. Matt Kemp was the talk of the fall league team putting himself on the prospect map with thunderous home runs as one of the youngest players in the league. Andre was right behind him putting up an OPS over 1.000 but since Andre was already 23, he should have destroyed the AFL.
The first move that Ned Colleti made as the Dodgers general manager was to trade the beleaguered Milton Bradley, and the player he got was Andre Ethier. At the time Andre was in AA and if the price seemed cheap for a young major league center fielder it was only because Milton Bradley had blown his value with maturation issues. Given what he was working with, it seemed like a decent get for Ned.
Who knew at the time, it would be the best trade he ever made.
Andre reported to AAA and got off to such a great start he was with the Dodgers by May of 2006. By August 5th Andre was hitting .352 and the talk was if he could get enough plate appearances to win the batting title. I did not partake in those talks, I was pretty sure that if Andre played more, the more he would stop hitting at such lofty levels. Sure enough he hit a rough patch and his average fell from .352 to .308 as he hit just .132 in Sept. Andre would only get one plate appearance in the postseason. With his dismal finish the talk about being a 3.5 was being bandied about again.
In 2007 Ned hedged his bets and brought in Luis Gonzalez to play in the outfield. That left Andre/Kemp/Luis battling for at bats. Andre ended up with the most but offensively he was just equal to Gonzalez while Matt Kemp was showing the power that would be his talking point until he hit a wall in Colorado a few years later. Andre was good but there was still the talk that he might not be the answer as a full time outfielder. The jury on 3.5 was still in session.
Andre entered 2008 without a full time job. The Dodgers had signed Andruw Jones this time to be the CF. Andre would need to fight Matt Kemp and Juan Pierre for playing time but by the end of spring training Andre was a starting outfielder. Andruw Jones played his way off the Dodger roster and Matt Kemp become the starting CF with Andre in Right and Pierre in left. The Dodgers would acquire Manny Ramirez and the outfield was now a powerful trifecta of Ethier/Kemp/Ramirez. 2008 would be the first of three years in a row where Andre would put up an OPS+ of 132 or 133. The talk of 3.5 had become historical and was no longer relevant.
In 2009 and 2010 he become known as the walk-off king.
It was uncanny how many times Andre came through time and time again.
Basically from 2008 – 2013 Andre was a mainstay in the Dodger outfield and a big part of the Dodger offense. He was always underrated but every year you could find him as one of the top offensive outfielders in the National League.
Because of his consistency the Dodgers signed him to a five year deal on June 12, 2012 worth 85M. Just like Matt Kemp it would quickly become an albatross contract. Andre finished 2012 in good style and did well in 2013 but in 2014 just one year into the deal he got hurt and at age 32 saw his OPS drop 30 points and fall below 100 for the first time in his career.
Andre bounced back in 2015 to have an outstanding season but that would be the last hurrah for Andre. In both 2016 and 2017 he would get hurt during the spring and miss 5/6 of season, showing up in Sept for some pinch hitting duties.
Even as he became the forgotten Dodger due to injuries, he remained a fan favorite as you could tell during the postseason player introductions in 2017.
His final at-bat with the Dodgers was a pinch hit single to drive in the only run in game seven of the World Series. That was a great way to go out, and I’m happy I saw the last hit of Andre Ethier in a Dodger uniform.
I don’t know where Andre will end up in 2018 but I sure hope he does well. Even if it is the Giants.
How does Andre Ethier figure historically?
As expected the Dodgers bought out Andre Ethier today making him a free agent. That doesn’t mean he won’t return to the Dodgers but given the crowded left field situation, it would seem doubtful.
Now that the Ethier era has ended, how does he figure historically?
How about the metrics like OPS+?
22nd in OPS+ for LAD with at least 1,000 PA.
10th in OPS+ for LAD with at least 2,000 PA
6th in OPS+ for LAD with at least 3,000 PA
4th in OPS+ for LAD with at least 4,000 PA
2nd in OPS+ for LAD with at least 5,000 PA – note, only nine LAD have ever had at least 5,000 PA.
How about the metrics like bWAR?
14th in bWAR for LAD with at least 1,000 PA
Player WAR/pos PA From To Age Willie Davis 54.4 8035 1960 1973 20-33 Ron Cey 47.5 6108 1971 1982 23-34 Steve Garvey 36.4 7027 1969 1982 20-33 Pedro Guerrero 32.6 4089 1978 1988 22-32 Davey Lopes 32.1 5308 1972 1981 27-36 Mike Piazza 31.9 3017 1992 1998 23-29 Maury Wills 31.9 6745 1959 1972 26-39 Bill Russell 31.2 8021 1969 1986 20-37 Mike Scioscia 26.0 5057 1980 1992 21-33 Jim Gilliam 23.4 4894 1958 1966 29-37 Adrian Beltre 23.3 3818 1998 2004 19-25 Wes Parker 22.9 4835 1964 1972 24-32 John Roseboro 22.3 4505 1958 1967 25-34 Andre Ethier 21.8 5425 2006 2017 24-35 Raul Mondesi 21.5 3765 1993 1999 22-28 Matt Kemp 21.2 4496 2006 2014 21-29
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
If Andre had been able to play even 100 games the past two years he would have moved up in quite a few LAD categories but when you lose two years to health issues, instead of becoming one of the all time LAD you kind of get stuck in the middle.
Andre hit the 8th most home runs in LAD history.
Player HR PA From To Age Eric Karros 270 6624 1991 2002 23-34 Ron Cey 228 6108 1971 1982 23-34 Steve Garvey 211 7027 1969 1982 20-33 Matt Kemp 182 4496 2006 2014 21-29 Mike Piazza 177 3017 1992 1998 23-29 Pedro Guerrero 171 4089 1978 1988 22-32 Raul Mondesi 163 3765 1993 1999 22-28 Andre Ethier 162 5425 2006 2017 24-35 Shawn Green 162 3462 2000 2004 27-31 Willie Davis 154 8035 1960 1973 20-33 Adrian Beltre 147 3818 1998 2004 19-25
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
Andre was 7th in hits.
Player PA From To Age H Willie Davis 8035 1960 1973 20-33 2091 Steve Garvey 7027 1969 1982 20-33 1968 Bill Russell 8021 1969 1986 20-37 1926 Maury Wills 6745 1959 1972 26-39 1732 Eric Karros 6624 1991 2002 23-34 1608 Ron Cey 6108 1971 1982 23-34 1378 Andre Ethier 5425 2006 2017 24-35 1367 Steve Sax 4745 1981 1988 21-28 1218 Davey Lopes 5308 1972 1981 27-36 1204 Matt Kemp 4496 2006 2014 21-29 1188 Dusty Baker 4552 1976 1983 27-34 1144
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
Andre was 3rd in doubles
Player 2B PA From To Age Steve Garvey 333 7027 1969 1982 20-33 Willie Davis 321 8035 1960 1973 20-33 Andre Ethier 303 5425 2006 2017 24-35 Eric Karros 302 6624 1991 2002 23-34 Bill Russell 293 8021 1969 1986 20-37 Ron Cey 223 6108 1971 1982 23-34 Matt Kemp 215 4496 2006 2014 21-29 Mike Scioscia 198 5057 1980 1992 21-33 Wes Parker 194 4835 1964 1972 24-32 Raul Mondesi 190 3765 1993 1999 22-28 Shawn Green 183 3462 2000 2004 27-31
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
Andre was 10th in triples
Player 3B PA From To Age Willie Davis 110 8035 1960 1973 20-33 Bill Russell 57 8021 1969 1986 20-37 Maury Wills 56 6745 1959 1972 26-39 John Roseboro 44 4505 1958 1967 25-34 Brett Butler 41 3342 1991 1997 34-40 Davey Lopes 39 5308 1972 1981 27-36 Raul Mondesi 37 3765 1993 1999 22-28 Steve Sax 35 4745 1981 1988 21-28 Steve Garvey 35 7027 1969 1982 20-33 Andre Ethier 34 5425 2006 2017 24-35
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
Andre was 9th in runs scored, Andre was 5th in RBI.
Andre is basically in the top 10 of every offensive category for the Los Angeles Dodgers .
Andre started playing for the Dodgers in 2006, so how does he stack up OPS+ and bWAR as an outfielder in the NL during his run?
Interesting how Ethier and Kemp are connected at the hip all over this page.
Player OPS+ PA From To Age Giancarlo Stanton 146 4120 2010 2017 20-27 Bryce Harper 140 3262 2012 2017 19-24 Matt Holliday 140 6124 2006 2016 26-36 Ryan Braun 139 6244 2007 2017 23-33 Andrew McCutchen 136 5829 2009 2017 22-30 Carlos Beltran 134 4388 2006 2013 29-36 Adam Dunn 132 3282 2006 2010 26-30 Yasiel Puig 128 2321 2013 2017 22-26 Pat Burrell 126 2370 2006 2011 29-34 Matt Kemp 123 6283 2006 2017 21-32 Andre Ethier 122 5425 2006 2017 24-35 Mike Morse 122 2139 2009 2017 27-35 Justin Upton 121 4934 2007 2015 19-27 Josh Willingham 121 2546 2006 2010 27-31 Christian Yelich 120 2812 2013 2017 21-25 Jayson Werth 119 5541 2007 2017 28-38 Carlos Gonzalez 118 4565 2009 2017 23-31 Brad Hawpe 118 2854 2006 2011 27-32 Hunter Pence 116 6386 2007 2017 24-34 Corey Hart 116 3795 2006 2015 24-33 Charlie Blackmon 115 3177 2011 2017 24-30
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
How about bWAR?
Player WAR/pos PA From To Age Ryan Braun 45.6 6244 2007 2017 23-33 Andrew McCutchen 40.0 5829 2009 2017 22-30 Matt Holliday 38.3 6124 2006 2016 26-36 Carlos Beltran 35.6 4388 2006 2013 29-36 Giancarlo Stanton 35.1 4120 2010 2017 20-27 Jason Heyward 34.9 4502 2010 2017 20-27 Hunter Pence 29.9 6386 2007 2017 24-34 Bryce Harper 26.1 3262 2012 2017 19-24 Justin Upton 24.7 4934 2007 2015 19-27 Jayson Werth 24.6 5541 2007 2017 28-38 Shane Victorino 24.4 4193 2006 2012 25-31 Starling Marte 23.2 2794 2012 2017 23-28 Carlos Gonzalez 22.9 4565 2009 2017 23-31 Andre Ethier 21.8 5425 2006 2017 24-35 Matt Kemp 20.5 6283 2006 2017 21-32 Carlos Gomez 20.4 2715 2007 2015 21-29 Michael Bourn 19.7 3880 2006 2016 23-33 Jay Bruce 18.7 5637 2008 2017 21-30 A.J. Pollock 18.2 2047 2012 2017 24-29 Dexter Fowler 17.9 4367 2008 2017 22-31
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/5/2017.
Cliff Corcoran looks at the Dodgers future
Sports on earth columnist Cliff Corcoran takes a look at the Dodger future and likes what he sees.
Six of the eight regulars in the Dodgers’ Game 7 lineup will be 27 or younger next year, and only corner outfielders Yasiel Puig (27 next year), who will be in the final year of his seven-year contract, and Joc Pederson (26), who will be arbitration-eligible for the first time, will be making seven-figure salaries.
Cliff does a nice overview of the future of the team but I do disagree with him about several of his conclusions. He feels the Dodgers have so much outfield depth that they can move Chris Taylor from CenterField to 2nd base. In August I would have agreed with him and probably wrote something similar but I no longer do for three reasons.
- I feel Logan Forsythe has proven he is a starting 2nd baseman for a championship caliber team, not yet ready to be a utility player. His struggles came after he was hurt, and once he got healthy he was a big part of the Dodger offense. The eyes and metrics say he’s a fine defensive 2nd baseman.
- Chris Taylor improved so much in center field I’d hate to take him from a position of strength. He was basically a right hand hitting Christian Yelich, and I think his glove will continue to get better as he gets more reps. This is a player who had never played the outfield until this year.
- For all of the Dodger depth in the outfield, they all look like corner outfielders defensively to me. Even though all of them have played CF doesn’t make them CF. Joc, Verdugo, Toles all seem cut from the same corner outfield cloth. Joc may have been the CF for the past 2 2/3 years but between the way, Taylor commanded CF and the way Joc did, it seemed like night and day to me. I don’t know if Puig respected Taylor more or not, but once Taylor took over CF, you never saw Puig trying to catch a ball in RCF that the CF should have caught.
As Cliff noted the Dodgers have so much rotational depth that I would have a hard time seeing them hit the free agent market for a pitcher.
I was wondering about Kenta. He was great out of the bullpen but his contract would preclude the Dodgers from putting him in the bullpen because it would cost him so much money. They could, however, trade from the rotational strength and move Kenta for the bullpen piece if they can’t resign Morrow. The Yankees are a team that comes to mind that could use some starting pitching and have boatloads of quality relief pitchers.
Kershaw, Hill, Wood, Ryu, McCarthy, Stewart, Buehler, Oaks, and Font are the depth. Also still under contract is Scott Kazmir.
Yeah, I agree, now that I write the names down that depth isn’t impressive enough for a team with World Champion aspirations.
Damn that Urias.
Still, Brock Stewart is a major league pitcher and if he isn’t in the rotation he could be the guy to replace Morrow or be added to the bullpen. Oaks and Font are just depth but the kind of depth that could be useful. Would also not shock me if they tried Font in the bullpen.
Walker Buehler is the wild card. Can he pitch five or six effective innings in the major leagues next year by July?
Maybe it won’t be as boring a winter as I first thought.
1966 World Series Highlights
I never saw the 1966 World Series, I only listened to it on the radio and being only seven years old didn’t quite know what was going on. I knew my brothers were mad at Willie Davis but didn’t know why. I just knew the Dodgers were swept by the Orioles.
Later I would find out more about the 1966 series but given how easily I thought they had lost I never dwelt too much on that series, I studied 1965 instead since the outcome was more enjoyable.
Up until 1966 the Dodger fans had only known success in the World Series. They won in 1959 in just their second year in Los Angeles. They won in 1963 in just the second year of Dodger Stadium. They won in 1965 in historic fashion. They had never lost a World Series while being the Los Angeles Dodgers and had won three World Championships in only seven years.
So when they were swept by the Orioles, I expect the town was shocked. Any team with Koufax and Drysdale was expected to be invincible. Koufax and Drysdale did their part but the team forgot to show up. Still it was a very close series, even though the Dodgers were shut out the last three games, they lost 1-0 in games 3 and 4. If they had somehow managed to win one of those games the whole series could have turned because they would have had Koufax pitching game five.
Over at TBLA Brooks Robinson came up and Steve/Mike/Gary all said that he had a great series against the Dodgers in 1966. I went back into the youtube history machine and found this sweet 39 minute review of the 1966 series.
This is more for my sake than anyone.
Game One – I do remember this game as a kid. Moe Drabowsky came in relief and struck out six Dodgers in a row and ended up with eleven strikeouts. He hurled 6 2/3 of relief work and even back then, that was unheard of. The Robinson boys hit back to back home runs in the first inning off of Don Drysdale. The first one by Frank barely escaped being caught by Tommy Davis and was a two-run shot. The second one by Brooks was in the same spot, about ten feet from the foul pole but much deeper. Both were on the field box side of the Dodger bullpen. Down 4 – 0 in the bottom of the second, Jim Lefebvre would hit the only World Series home run for the Dodgers. With the score 4 – 1 in the bottom of the 3rd, the Dodgers loaded the bases on walks from McNally and he was replaced with Moe who walked in a run. Moe got Roseboro for the final out. The Dodgers had scored a run with four walks. The Orioles would score one more run and the Dodgers would lose 5 – 2. Remember that score. 5 – 2. The Dodgers would not score another run in the World Series.
Game Two – pitted 20-year-old Jim Palmer against Sandy Koufax. This game is the game most fans remember. Willie Davis made three errors in one inning. Dropping two fly balls and a wild throw to 3rd. The score had been 0 – 0 heading into the top of the 5th when Willie Davis had trouble with the sun. Three runs would score and they were all unearned. The Orioles would score one more run in the sixth again on a questionable play by Willie Davis. Frank Robinson sent a long fly ball to RCF that appeared as though either Davis or Fairly could have caught but neither did and it went for a triple. Even though that wasn’t ruled an error the Dodgers would make six errors in the game and lose 6 – 0. Jim Palmer became the youngest pitcher in major league history to throw a World Series shutout.
Game Three – pitted 21-year-old Wally Bunker against Claude Osteen. As a 19-year-old in 1964 Wally Bunker had a record of 19-5 and threw 195 innings. Not surprisingly he had arm trouble in 1966 after throwing over 400 major league innings before his 21st birthday. In 1966 he had only pitched 142 innings and was no longer the wunderkind of 1964. Until he faced the Dodgers. In game three Bunker threw his first shutout of the season and beat the Dodgers 1 – 0. The Orioles had scored their run on a 430 foot home run by Paul Blair. The Orioles only managed three hits but one of them was that home run while the Dodgers six hits couldn’t push across a single run.
In back to back games the Dodgers had been shutout by a 20 and 21 year-old.
Game Four – McNally against Drysdale again. Drysdale was fantastic, pitching a complete game and giving up only one run. That run was another home run by Frank Robinson. In the same inning Willie Davis tried to atone for his miscues in game two by making an incredible catch of a Boog Powell drive. The video shows Willie run straight to the fence, then glide five steps to his right and leap a good foot above the face and take a home run away from Powell to keep the score at 1 – 0. It didn’t matter. The Dodgers would lose once again 1 – 0 though it took Paul Blair robbing Jim Lefebvre of a home run in the top of the 8th to keep the Dodgers off the scoreboard.
The Orioles used only four pitchers and gave up two runs in thirty-six innings. Games 2 – 4 were all complete game shutouts.
The Orioles didn’t start a pitcher over the age of 23.
At no time did they show any special plays by Brooks Robinson. He made one nice play to his left to start a DP but that wasn’t anything special.
Wally Bunker saw his career come to an end by the age of 27. Not a kind ending for the wonderkid of 1964 who shut out the Dodgers in game three.
Dave McNally started two of the games. From 1969 – 1971 you could argue he was the best pitcher in the AL. He never won a CYA, but the finished 4th, 2nd, and 4th in those three years.
Luis Aparicio would end up in the HOF
Brooks Robinson would end up in the HOF
Frank Robinson would end up in the HOF
Jim Palmer would end up in the HOF
Frank Robinson would end up playing for the Dodgers.
Dave Johnson was a rookie 2nd baseman for the Orioles and he would end up managing the Dodgers
Boog Powell was on the Dodgers in 1977 but Steve Garvey was the 1st baseman and never let Boog play because he was doing his NL record setting consecutive streak.
Yu Darvish should call Livan Hernandez
I was just curious just how historically bad Yu was in this World. Not as bad as I thought but pretty bad. I looked at every World Series game in the 21st century with a game score less than or equal to 30.
Looking at this list my first thought is that given we are only at 2017 in the 21st century, there sure have been a boatload of putrid starts.
And once again, I get to thank Russ Ortiz for 2002, though it is not as much fun since they have won three rings. It was really fun when they had no rings.
Yu Darvish and Livan Hernandez are on the list twice. They both crapped out in the same World Series and in the same order. Game 3 and Game 7.
Remember this. Next time a pitcher is horrible in game 3 of a World Series and is due to pitch game seven, don’t let him.
Player Date Series Gm# Tm Opp Rslt IP H ER BB SO GSc Yu Darvish 2017-11-01 WS 7 LAD HOU L 1-5 1.2 3 4 1 0 30 Ryan Vogelsong 2014-10-25 WS 4 SFG KCR W 11-4 2.2 7 4 1 2 29 Livan Hernandez 2002-10-27 WS 7 SFG ANA L 1-4 2.0 4 4 4 1 29 Michael Wacha 2013-10-30 WS 6 STL BOS L 1-6 3.2 5 6 4 5 28 Cliff Lee 2010-10-27 WS 1 TEX SFG L 7-11 4.2 8 6 1 7 28 Yordano Ventura 2015-10-30 WS 3 KCR NYM L 3-9 3.1 7 5 0 1 27 Livan Hernandez 2002-10-22 WS 3 SFG ANA L 4-10 3.2 5 5 5 3 27 Yu Darvish 2017-10-27 WS 3 LAD HOU L 3-5 1.2 6 4 1 0 26 Kevin Appier 2002-10-20 WS 2 ANA SFG W 11-10 2.0 5 5 2 2 26 James Shields 2014-10-21 WS 1 KCR SFG L 1-7 3.0 7 5 1 1 25 Jake Peavy 2014-10-28 WS 6 SFG KCR L 0-10 1.1 6 5 1 2 23 A.J. Burnett 2009-11-02 WS 5 NYY PHI L 6-8 2.0 4 6 4 2 22 Jarrod Washburn 2002-10-24 WS 5 ANA SFG L 4-16 4.0 6 6 5 1 22 Josh Tomlin 2016-11-01 WS 6 CLE CHC L 3-9 2.1 6 6 1 0 20 Jeff Francis 2007-10-24 WS 1 COL BOS L 1-13 4.0 10 6 3 3 18 Andy Pettitte 2001-11-03 WS 6 NYY ARI L 2-15 2.0 7 6 2 1 17 Josh Fogg 2007-10-27 WS 3 COL BOS L 5-10 2.2 10 6 2 2 14 Woody Williams 2004-10-23 WS 1 STL BOS L 9-11 2.1 8 7 3 1 11 Russ Ortiz 2002-10-20 WS 2 SFG ANA L 10-11 1.2 9 7 0 0 9
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/2/2017.
Dodger free agent musings
The Dodgers have six free agents this year. I would be comfortable with none of them returning. Since I can’t speak for the Dodger front office I can only say what I think I’d do.
Chase Utley – his postseason failures the past two years have negatively impacted the opinion of his solid regular seasons. I’ll have to look at the options available for left-handed second baseman but I suspect there aren’t many options. I do think Logan Forsythe is the everyday 2nd baseman next year as Dave Roberts got more and more comfortable with him, so we are just looking for someone who can give him a break against some tough right-hand pitchers. His defense might not be worth the average offensive output. His intangibles are hard for me to quantify but I’d say after two years with Chase they should have learned everything they needed to learn from him. I have loved watching Chase play for the last two years, I will miss him but at this point, I think I say later gator.
Yu Darvish – hard pass. I wanted to trade for him to help the team in the postseason. He kind of did that, but he also killed them in the World Series. When he shit the bed in game three it directly affected the rest of the World Series. He’s 31. He’s inconsistent. And yes, even with all he’s done, you could say he’s still a project. Let him drive someone else crazy. I’m very interested in seeing who he signs for and how much. I don’t think anyone with his pedigree has ever been a free agent after being such a bust in a World Series.
Brandon Morrow – I’d like to be on the Morrow train but I can’t drive it. I love everything he did for the Dodgers this year, but he’s going to get paid this offseason and I don’t want to be the team overpaying for one great season out of five. Maybe he’s the guy from this point on who stays healthy and brilliant now that he found his role in relief so I’d offer him a contract but I wouldn’t go crazy. He thrived here, he may want to re-sign here, I’d re-sign him to a two-year max, anything else, bye bye.
Tony Watson – Watson did exactly what the Dodgers wanted when they traded for him. I don’t think he’s any better than Luis Avilan. With Tony Cingrani already in front of him on the left-handed relief depth chart, he is another part of the bullpen that I’d let go if someone wants to overpay in years and money. I’d offer him a contract and expect him to turn it down and find someone else to dance with.
Franklin Gutierrez – I expect him to retire but even he doesn’t, later gator.
Curtis Granderson – they had a need, he did not fulfill the need. They won’t have the need next year. later gator.
Andre Ethier is not technically a free agent but he will be as soon as the Dodgers execute the 2.5M buyout. The Dodgers have basically played two full seasons without Andre while paying him 35M for a handful of games. If Alex Verdugo can’t do what a 36-year-old Andre Ethier can do, then he was highly overrated as a prospect. When the Dodgers do execute the buyout, Andre will get the column he deserves. In his prime, he was always underrated, and over time might have to be considered one of the top three Dodger left fielders of all time.
Game Seven thoughts
If that is the last hit by Andre Ethier as a Dodger (and it should be) that is about as cool a way to go out as you could envision
Every fan had to be frustrated that of the three possible starters for game seven the one that was chosen shit the bed, while the other two pitched six scoreless innings between them.
In 1965, in game seven Walter Alston had Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax warm up as though each were going to start. I might have done the same last night with Kershaw and Yu.
You can count on Kershaw to be nails for 12 outs in a postseason appearance
Chris Taylor gave us one last reason to cheer him with that outstanding catch. We know who our CF of the future is and it is not Joc Pederson or Alex Verdugo.
Dodger fans were outstanding last night. They supported Yu as long as they could. He did nothing to earn that support.
If the Dodgers couldn’t be champions I’m glad it was Houston who was.
Can’t ever recall a starting catcher losing his job during the postseason. Grandal went from starting to a timeshare to being invisible.
Houston doesn’t need a postseason bullpen when each of their exiled starters kick ass out of the pen.
I was so wrong on Yu
I was so wrong on Bellinger for game seven. I really felt he was going to have a big game.
There were empty seats that were never filled during the game. Possibly they were just using the standing areas. Just felt weird to have an empty seat next to me, and four behind me.
Puig didn’t have a productive world series but I feel he has turned the corner and while the production didn’t show it, he appeared mentally ready for the postseason for the first time.
Justin Turner went from our Big Papi clutch hitter to a big reason why the Dodgers had to play a game seven.
I felt after Yu was lifted that Dave Roberts did a great job in managing the team but it was too little too late. Having Jansen face the heart of the lineup in the 7th was the right move. You couldn’t let them score again. Of course, it took a brilliant catch by Taylor for that strategy to pay off but it did.
Luck was not our lady last night.
I would have liked for the Dodgers to come out on the field after the game so the fans could give them one final ovation for a great season and a well fought World Series. Yet, I understand how problematic that would be with Houston celebrating their World Championship.
George Springer put on quite a show
Game seven disappointments
These don’t have anything to do with the game. You can read that in over twenty other Dodger blogs, this has to do with how Dodger Stadium prepared for game seven.
For a game seven, I expected more hoopla than opening day. Didn’t happen.
As I was walking onto the stadium grounds I eyed the Budweiser Clydesdales and thought, damn they are bringing out the big guns. I was there at 02:20 for a 05:20 game and the horses were still in their trailers so I wandered over and took a few photos. Say what you want about Budweiser beer, the Clydesdales are cool.
I entered the stadium and got a rally towel. It is blue. It says Dodgers. It says nothing about the World Series. They couldn’t even bother to print up rally towels that say World Series on them. Hell, the average retail price for the World Series ticket was over $500 (not second market cost) and they couldn’t even give you a World Series rally towel keepsake?
That may sound petty, and it very well could be.
With hours to kill I started going into all of the merchandise stores so I could get some World Series gear.
Nada
Not a damn thing was available. No hats, no clothes, no nothing.
I bought a World Series Program but that was for the whole World Series not for game seven.
The street vendors outside the Stadium on the walk in had World Series gear, the Dodgers didn’t. I assume the problem was simply supply and demand which would mean that the Dodgers didn’t order enough World Series merchandise to meet the demands of their fans. Happens. Maybe they spent a chunk of their budget on World Series Champion merchandise? That will look good where ever they end up sending it too.
The other petty complaint that they didn’t do any pregame hoopla. Now normally I wouldn’t care, but this being my first and possibly only World Series game, I wanted some hoopla. They didn’t introduce the players on the field, they were simply introduced via the public address announcer as though this was just another game.
Why was that skipped for this game?
The Clydesdales never made an appearance inside the Stadium. Why were they there?
No flyover
I loved seeing Newk and Sandy throw out the first pitch but I have to admit, a cool tribute might have been having a relation to Roy Campanella and John Roseboro catch their throws being they were the main catchers for both pitchers and have both passed away. We have seen Rick Monday and Steve Garvey many times before.
And why couldn’t they find some video to put on the board about Newk? That might be a hard archive to find but somewhere they have to have film of the greatest pitcher of 1956?
I left the game with one momento. A World Series soft drink cup. I don’t even have a ticket because they don’t do hard tickets anymore.
On the way back to Chinatown I purchased my World Series gear from the street vendors. The prices had dropped from $20 to $10. I heard some people haggling at $5. Come on people, you just paid over $1000 for a ticket to a World Series game and you want to screw the street vendor out of any profit at all?
Really?
Oh, and dammit now I have to agree with Bill Plashcke about Yu Darvish
99 out of 100 pitchers would not have pitched so bad in consecutive starts.
Also George Springer would have gotten my MVP vote even if the Dodgers had won the Series.
Dodgers, Yesterday and Today 